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#42933 - 05/14/11 06:26 AM what happens if we don't specify Global coordinates in CII
runner Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 125
Loc: INDIA
Hi to all,
can any one tell us What happens if global coordinates are not specified? I noticed while dropping isometric in CAESAR II I found EL +3.548M then i noticed I have not gave global coordinates.
can you please tell me how importance entering global coordinates in CII model its effects in stress.

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#42934 - 05/14/11 07:55 AM Re: what happens if we don't specify Global coordinates in CII [Re: runner]
Dave Diehl Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 2382
Loc: Houston, TX, USA
Coordinates affect the analysis in wind loads and wave loads - elevation.
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Dave Diehl

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#42935 - 05/14/11 08:30 AM Re: what happens if we don't specify Global coordinates in CII [Re: runner]
runner Offline
Member

Registered: 12/11/08
Posts: 125
Loc: INDIA
AT START NODE IF WE GIVE global CO-ORDINATEs IT WILL WORK OR WE NEED TO GIVE WERE EVER BRANCHES AND NEW LINE JOINING USING (Environment>Include piping input file) we need to consider to input global co-ordinates.

when we are joining new line into old line using ( environment>include piping input file)node will be some time 10 to 100 with increment 10, joining 100 to 300 goes on to 300 to 200 with increment 10 in this case we need to provide 2 global co-ordinate at 10 and at 100 node.

node numbering.

10----------100-300------------200 ( if we do renumbering also it will show same order)

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#42937 - 05/14/11 08:38 AM Re: what happens if we don't specify Global coordinates in CII [Re: runner]
Richard Ay Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/99
Posts: 6226
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
If all of the elements in the model are connected, then you only need to set the coordinates of the first node.

In your above example, node 100 won't be connected to 300 unless either:
a) you change node 300 to 100 (or 100 to 300)
b) or you associate 300 to 100 with a CNODE.

Simply specifying the coordinates of node 300 (which would be possible since the model is disconnected) to match those of 100 would make things look connected graphically - but they really wouldn't be.

As stated above, coordinates are required if you're applying environmental loads. Other than that, specifying the actual coordinate of the first node is optional. (You may want to do this as a aid in geometry verification, but it won't affect the analysis.)
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Regards,
Richard Ay - Consultant

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#61589 - 12/19/14 09:31 AM Re: what happens if we don't specify Global coordinates in CII [Re: runner]
Shamim Huq Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 31
Loc: Texas, USA
Richard - my understanding is that the Global Co-ordinate is used to vary the Wind loads by height. If that is so then would it make sense to locate the Global Co-ordinate at the lowest Point of your Model ? Thanks!!

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#61594 - 12/19/14 11:29 PM Re: what happens if we don't specify Global coordinates in CII [Re: runner]
Shamim Huq Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 31
Loc: Texas, USA
Dave Diehl - your response was precisely what I was looking for, but I need some clarification. If I am specifying a Global Co-ordinate at a starting point - should that location be a node point very high on the model or the lowest node point on the model?


Edited by Shamim Huq (12/19/14 11:30 PM)

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#61595 - 12/20/14 02:47 AM Re: what happens if we don't specify Global coordinates in CII [Re: runner]
mariog Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 798
Loc: Romania
In case WIND loading is present, it is important that the pipe be given the correct elevation. This is the goal; the tool is "Global coordinates".
In case you specify correctly the "Global coordinates" for the start node of each discontiguous system segment, it is expected that software will know (by calculation, step by step, based on "from-to" information) the coordinates of every model node and will know how every element is wind exposed vs elevation.


Edited by mariog (12/20/14 04:08 AM)

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#61596 - 12/20/14 02:53 PM Re: what happens if we don't specify Global coordinates in CII [Re: mariog]
Shamim Huq Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 31
Loc: Texas, USA
That does make sense than all we have to do is define one data point with a Global Co-ordinate and it does not necessarily have to be a starting data point.

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#61598 - 12/20/14 03:19 PM Re: what happens if we don't specify Global coordinates in CII [Re: runner]
mariog Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 798
Loc: Romania
Yes, however remember that when you specify wind on an element, the wind load will act on all succeeding elements depending on elements' elevation.
Remember also you can consider your wind speed vs. elevation profile (or your wind pressure vs elevation profile).
I suggest you to experiment a little all the options.

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