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#43057 - 05/24/11 07:00 AM Decreasing nozzle loade by using spring
M.Mohammad Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 99
Loc: Japan
Hello Dears,

I had a manager that he believed a spring support is used only for lift off system. Does it correct? Because I think that we can use it for decrease dead weight. for example when we have a heavy system and It's nozzle load isn't in the allowable range and we can't decrease it by rigid restraint, can we decrease the load on the nozzle by using a spring?

I think we can do it by increase in the cold load. What's your idea?

Thanks,
_________________________
Best Wishes,
M.Mohammad

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#43071 - 05/24/11 10:52 PM Re: Decreasing nozzle loade by using spring [Re: M.Mohammad]
stressguy81 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 71
Loc: India
Quote:
believed a spring support is used only for lift off system


This cannot be true, using spring for tank settlement (downward movement) is one of the prefered option.


Quote:
we can use it for decrease dead weight

Is there any significant thermal upward movement/downward movement at the point where you are planning to insert a spring?

Quote:
increase in the cold load

If there is no significant upward movement/downward at that point, static balancing to achive minimum load at nozzle by moving rest support closer/away could be an option.

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#43081 - 05/25/11 02:59 AM Re: Decreasing nozzle loade by using spring [Re: M.Mohammad]
M.Mohammad Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 99
Loc: Japan
Thanks,

There is a little upward movement but I've tried hardly to balance it but I couldn't decreases the load on the nozzle. I attached my system in the topic. If you can see it, you will make me happy.

In this system there is a compressor and air-cooler. I couldn't decrease the load on the air-cooler then I added a spring support to do it.


Attachments
CAESAR FILES.zip (340 downloads)

_________________________
Best Wishes,
M.Mohammad

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#43199 - 06/07/11 12:21 AM Re: Decreasing nozzle loade by using spring [Re: M.Mohammad]
M.Mohammad Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 99
Loc: Japan
Hello Dears

Isn't anyone to help me?
_________________________
Best Wishes,
M.Mohammad

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#43261 - 06/10/11 10:32 AM Re: Decreasing nozzle loade by using spring [Re: M.Mohammad]
Richard Yee Offline
Member

Registered: 12/16/99
Posts: 166
Loc: Chesterfield, MO 63017
To M. Moleshi,

The loads on the equipment need to be compared for the sustained (cold) case and for the operating (hot) case. If the loads in cold case are low, but loads for the hot operating case are high, then spring supports might be one solution to deal with the piping expansion and equipment thermal displacements. Another apporoach to dealing with piping expansion is to locate vertical support, guide, limit stop, and / or anchor to control expansion movement to directions away from the equipment. Any gaps used in guide or limit stops should be evaluated against the un-restrained thermal expansion - the selected gaps could have little effect unless the gaps are large enough to allow sufficient movement, or if the gaps result in not enough retraint to control loads. If the cold sustained case loads are in excess of the allowable loads, then the supports and possibly piping geometry first need to be improved to reduce the loads on equipment. The directions of the high operating loads will indicate which directions need more flexibility to absorb thermal expansion. If the allowable loads are very small such that it is difficult to achieve acceptable operating loads by improved supports design, then one last tool to use would be cold spring of the piping by use of 'cut short' or 'cut long' elements in those directions of high loads.

Heat exchangers and rotating equipment can have ridiculous low allowable loads, so some negotiation with vendors is often needed to arrive at allowable loads and piping compliance. The API 610 pump packge supplied by one vendor had option for reinforced baseplate to increase the allowable loads to 2x the API 610 allowable. The cost increase of slightly more than 1% of the pumps package was worth the savings from the simplified piping. How could a vendor propose a baseplate too weak to even sustain the low allowable loads of API 610 !
_________________________
R Yee

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#43276 - 06/12/11 01:18 AM Re: Decreasing nozzle loade by using spring [Re: M.Mohammad]
salz64_QES Offline
Member

Registered: 06/01/11
Posts: 2
Loc: PK
Yes Mohammad! you are right in an overall sense but in order to reduce the load on nozzle by attaching a spring support; You need to check which direction the load is acting and why (due to sustained, occ or thermal etc). Problem might not solve by applying a spring support nearby the nozzle only, you might just have to adjust the other nearby supports for the spring to take all the maximum load possible. Little tricky and iterative but can be done. I don't have my Caesar soft with me otherwise I'll look into it and might help you.
_________________________
Regards,
Salz
Pipe Stress Engineer,
Salzvision@gmail.com

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