Topic Options
#41906 - 03/25/11 10:35 AM Restraint Output Wrong !!!!!!!!!!
Abdelkader Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/10
Posts: 82
Loc: France
Hi all;

I'm calculating a jacketed pipe on Caesar II and I got a big problem in Restraint output:

for seismic effect I'm using a SRSS method for load combination cases;

6 (OPE) W+D3+T1+P1
7 (SUS) W+D3+P1+H
8 (OPE) W+D1+D3+T1+P1+WIN1
9 (OPE) W-D1+D3+T1+P1+WIN2
10 (OPE) W+D2+D3+T1+P1+WIN3
11 (OPE) W-D2+D3+T1+P1+WIN4
12 (OPE) W+D1+D3+T1+P1+U1
13 (OPE) W-D1+D3+T1+P1-U1
14 (OPE) W+D2+D3+T1+P1+U2
15 (OPE) W-D2+D3+T1+P1-U2
16 (OPE) W+D3+T1+P1+U3
17 (OPE) W+D3+T1+P1-U3
18 (EXP) L18=L6-L7
19 (OCC) L19=L8-L6 (WIND1)
20 (OCC) L20=L9-L6 (WIND2)
21 (OCC) L21=L10-L6 (WIND3)
22 (OCC) L22=L11-L6 (WIND4)
23 (OCC) L23=L12-L6 (U1)
24 (OCC) L24=L13-L6 (-U1)
25 (OCC) L25=L14-L6 (U2)
26 (OCC) L26=L15-L6 (-U2)
27 (OCC) L27=L16-L6 (U3)
28 (OCC) L28=L17-L6 (-U3)
29 (OCC) L29=L19,L20 (MAX)
30 (OCC) L30=L21,L22 (MAX)
31 (OCC) L31=L29+L30 SRSS METHOD
32 (OCC) L32=L23,L24 (MAX)
33 (OCC) L33=L25,L26 (MAX)
34 (OCC) L34=L27,L28 (MAX)
35 (OCC) L35=L32+L33+L34 SRSS METHOD

My problem is in case 35: in my load case configuration, the SRSS METHOD is ON

but in the restraint output and only for nodes of jacketed pipe restraints and only for Z axis the result is wrong and you can check the Restraint summary in Node 1360 (z axis) :

In my examples I took node 1360 (jacket's node)
Actually we have:

L35= √(L32^2+L33^2+L34^2) SRSS METHOD

But in my case I got a different result

Can someone tell me if he already got the same problem before?
My model is wrong?



Attachments
restraint summary.pdf (366 downloads)
rESTRAINT PROBLEM.bmp (320 downloads)


Top
#41907 - 03/25/11 01:37 PM Re: Restraint Output Wrong !!!!!!!!!! [Re: Abdelkader]
Nadia Strikovski Offline
Member

Registered: 09/09/03
Posts: 37
Loc: Houston, TX
This is how the “max” option works for “restraints”.

The “Maximum combination” loadcase (say, L32, in your example) selects the maximum load on each of the modeled restraints from all the selected loadcases (L23, L24). If there are more than one restraint defined at a node (e.g., on the node 1360 there are 3 restraint types: rigid GUID w/gap, ridig +Z, and rigid -Z w/gap), then each restraint type is calculated and evaluated individually. CAESAR II considers each restraint component/type separately and picks the highest load among them as well as from all the specified component loadcases. Thus, the “Restraints” report for “max combination” case will have largest magnitude loads (saving the sign) for different restraint types from all specified load components at a node – I can't really quote the numbers here since I don't have the complete data set (loads on each restraint type that can be found in the "Restraints" report).
If you then use the “Restraint Summary” report for that same “max combination” loadcase L32, the loads from different restraint types for each degree of freedom simply summed together at the same node, whether they occur on the same restraint or not, and whether they belong to the same loadcase or not. The “Maximum combination” loadcase does not keep track of where its loads came from. My suspicion is that the loads from "+Z" type could be "canceling out" the loads from "-Z" type on the node 1360; so the FZ are "smaller than expected" because of this on the "Restraint Summary" report.
The SRSS loadcase L35 again acts on each restraint type separately (squared FZ from +Z restraint, summed with squared FZ from -Z restraint, summed with FZ from GUI restraint gives a different number).
Again, it's hard to speculate without working with real numbers for each restraint type on loadcases L32, L33, L34 (not the Summary report).
Therefore I would suggest that you use the “Restraints” report instead of the “Restraint Summary” report for combination methods such as max/min if you have more than one type of restraint at a single node.

If you want to make sure that loads of opposite sign don’t cancel each other on the “Restraint Summary” report, I suggest that you run the load case using the “SignMax” summation convention, and possibly add a second load case using the “SignMin” convention to cover the range.
_________________________
Nadia Strikovski
Intergraph CAS

Top
#41923 - 03/28/11 02:03 AM Re: Restraint Output Wrong !!!!!!!!!! [Re: Nadia Strikovski]
Abdelkader Offline
Member

Registered: 06/28/10
Posts: 82
Loc: France

NADIA,

You're right, when I chose Sign MAX I got a logic results but I have another question: I have to calculate the support so which restraints do I have to use SignMax or Max.
When I used SignMax, I got the same restraints values for some cases for example OCC 34 but the sign changed. can you tell me why the sign is changing?

Top



Moderator:  Denny_Thomas, uribejl 
Who's Online
0 registered (), 44 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
May
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31
Forum Stats
12065 Members
14 Forums
16973 Topics
75151 Posts

Max Online: 303 @ 01/28/20 11:58 PM
Top Posters (30 Days)