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#36012 - 06/08/10 02:56 AM Flange Rating
Miera81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Malaysia
According to ASME B16.5 2003 ed.,for CL 300 Gr. 1.1 & temperature 200F, the pressure can be maximum to 680 psi.
My vessel design is 677 psi & 200F. Seem ok if we use CL 300, but PVElite prompt rating flange < than design pressure. How to solve this problem?


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#36013 - 06/08/10 03:04 AM Re: Flange Rating [Re: Miera81]
Miera81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Malaysia

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#36021 - 06/08/10 09:20 AM Re: Flange Rating [Re: Miera81]
M.SHUKLA Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 55
Loc: INDIA
What is the material?

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#36022 - 06/08/10 10:15 AM Re: Flange Rating [Re: M.SHUKLA]
Ray_Delaforce Offline
Member

Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 743
Loc: Houston, TX
Hello Folks

You do not have very much choice. You can either lower the design pressure of the vessel, or use perhaps a Class 600 flange.

There is another method that might work. You could do the calculation in accordance with Appendix 2 of ASME VIII, Division 1. You could remove the flange from the nozzle, and proceed to analyse a body flange, putting in all the data for a Class 300 flange. It probably will not work, but you can try.
_________________________
Sincerely,
Ray Delaforce
CADWorx & Analysis Solutions
Hexagon PPM

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#36027 - 06/08/10 11:42 AM Re: Flange Rating [Re: Ray_Delaforce]
tahirq Offline
Member

Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 50
Loc: India
Hello there,

There is one reason why The Program Is showing it unsafe

summation of static head with design pressure shall be checked along with B16.5 pressure temperate rating.

Hence for e.g, your design pressure i.e 677 psi & after consideration of static head of the liquid, the same may increase depending upon the volume.
Say for e.g 680.5 psi!!!!

Thereby Insufficient!!!

Its better to opt for 600#

Hope this resolves your query.

Thanks
_________________________
Tahir Quraishi
Technip

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#36033 - 06/08/10 08:16 PM Re: Flange Rating [Re: tahirq]
Miera81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Malaysia
The material is 105N

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#36034 - 06/08/10 08:21 PM Re: Flange Rating [Re: Ray_Delaforce]
Miera81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Malaysia
Client not accept to reduce the design pressure or design temperature.

Even inclusive of static head, the pressure still not exceed 680 psi. I try with other software, & the result is pass with CL.300.

Our client not accept other software. They want us to use PVElite. For your information, this vessel is design base on Div. II latest edition.


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#36036 - 06/08/10 08:42 PM Re: Flange Rating [Re: Miera81]
Miera81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Malaysia
Client very confident the CL.300, since they using PVElite 2009. I also check with 2009 & the result is OK. Is it advisable if i use PVElite 2009?

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#36052 - 06/09/10 07:10 AM Re: Flange Rating [Re: Miera81]
Ray_Delaforce Offline
Member

Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 743
Loc: Houston, TX
Hello Miera81

Could you please send me your PV Elite file. I would like to have a look at the reason why 'other software' passes this flange, and PV Elite does not. All software should be reading the same data from ASME B16.5.

I would like to get the bottom of this apparant confict.

_________________________
Sincerely,
Ray Delaforce
CADWorx & Analysis Solutions
Hexagon PPM

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#36074 - 06/09/10 12:50 PM Re: Flange Rating [Re: Ray_Delaforce]
Mandeep Singh Offline

Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 600
Loc: Houston, Tx, USA
Is it a large diameter nozzle?

Is it a hub-nozzle that you selected from the FVC catalog?

For large diameter flanges (> 24in) B16.47 should be used to get pressure rating. But, for the smaller flanges, B16.5 should be used.

At this time, ASME is still referring to the older edition of B16.47 pressure ratings. These ratings are lower that the regular flanges.

That may be the issue.

Did you send your PV Elite to us (send it us and put it to my attention)?
_________________________
Best Regards,
Mandeep Singh
CADWorx & Analysis Solutions
Hexagon PPM

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#36086 - 06/09/10 10:18 PM Re: Flange Rating [Re: Mandeep Singh]
yadavsatish Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 16
Loc: india
Dear Mandeep,

Please note that, in B16.5, Edition 1996 flange rating at 200 deg.F is 675 psig whereas in Edition 2003 it is 680 psig.

The applicable ediition of B16.5 is 1996 as per table AG-150.1 in sec. VIII-Div 2, Edition 2001

However when we select 2001 Edition of material in Pvelite, it results flange rating as 680 psig which is incorrect. ( I am using Pvelite 2009)

Please corrrect if I am wrong.

Regards,
SKY


Edited by yadavsatish (06/09/10 10:20 PM)

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#36168 - 06/11/10 10:29 PM Re: Flange Rating [Re: yadavsatish]
yadavsatish Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 16
Loc: india
Can anyone of the moderators clarify the above issue i.e. happening in the pvelite.

Regards,
SKY

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#36187 - 06/14/10 08:55 AM Re: Flange Rating [Re: yadavsatish]
Mandeep Singh Offline

Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 600
Loc: Houston, Tx, USA
The reason the flange ratings were increased in B16.5 was to match the increase in allowable stresses of the materials in the 1999 Addenda. So, technically if you are using the allowable stresses after 1999 then you should be fine with higher flange ratings.

If you choose the older year's material database, the rules for analysis that are followed are per the current year's addenda. There is one exception to this, if you choose 1999 Addenda.

One workaround that you can use is, design your vessel. Got to Tools menu -> Configuration dialog and check the box for pre-1999 addenda. Then do not select the materials again or modify the design temperature. Now, the flange ratings will be per the 1996 edition of B16.5.

On the PV Elite installation disc, there is a folder called "Older Versions", that contains some older versions of PV Elite (from 2004 Addenda onward at this time). You can use them to get the rules and materials of that addenda.

I hope this helps.
_________________________
Best Regards,
Mandeep Singh
CADWorx & Analysis Solutions
Hexagon PPM

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#36193 - 06/14/10 09:43 PM Re: Flange Rating [Re: Mandeep Singh]
yadavsatish Offline
Member

Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 16
Loc: india
Dear Mandeep,

I am not agree with your views as mentioned above.
Please note that we have to go as per CODE & as per code If we are using SEC VIII-1Edition 2001, then Edition 1996 of B16.5 has to be used as per Table U-3.
In my opinion, Pvelite is taking the wrong flange rating in this case.

Regards,
SKY

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#36195 - 06/15/10 12:24 AM Re: Flange Rating [Re: Mandeep Singh]
Miera81 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Malaysia
Mandeep,

Thanks for your assistant.
Since this project just award this month, 1 will design according to:

In Accordance with ASME Section VIII Division 2
ASME Code Version : 2007, Addenda A-08

So PVElite 2009 build june still can be use.

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#36205 - 06/15/10 07:56 AM Re: Flange Rating [Re: Miera81]
Mandeep Singh Offline

Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 600
Loc: Houston, Tx, USA
Miera81,

If the project was awarded this month then you would use,Addenda A-09. In that case you can use 2010 version of PV Elite.

If you want to use Addenda A-08 (last year's addenda) then use PV Elite 2009.

_________________________
Best Regards,
Mandeep Singh
CADWorx & Analysis Solutions
Hexagon PPM

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#36206 - 06/15/10 08:05 AM Re: Flange Rating [Re: Mandeep Singh]
Mandeep Singh Offline

Member

Registered: 12/15/99
Posts: 600
Loc: Houston, Tx, USA
Hi SKY,

PV Elite just has older addenda materials, it does not contains the rules for analysis per older addenda (except pre-99).

So, we are not making that claim.

If you want to use materials and older rules then you have to install the older version of PV Elite. But, unfortunately we switched the hardware keys and do not have the 2001 version available now.
_________________________
Best Regards,
Mandeep Singh
CADWorx & Analysis Solutions
Hexagon PPM

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