#15095 - 01/06/08 04:18 AM
Ambient Temperature
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Member
Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 20
Loc: Abu Dhabi, UAE
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hello,
Can anybody pls help me im a new user of caesar software. I gonna make a burried piping model and i just wanna know what will be the ambient temperature im going to use. My location is in United Arab Emirates.
Thank you very much.
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#15096 - 01/06/08 09:40 AM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: riz_john]
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Member
Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 102
Loc: Canada
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I think you should consider that temperature(weather or soil) which your line is going to be fix in it(by tighteing flange bolts or backfilling)
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#15097 - 01/06/08 10:14 AM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: Jozm]
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Member
Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 1110
Loc: U.S.A.
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usually below grade temperatures are quite stable year round dependent upon depth of cover etc. but this is really a question for a soils engineer more so than a CAESAR II or code question, so go consult with a soils person
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Best Regards,
John C. Luf
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#15770 - 02/05/08 10:33 AM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: John C. Luf]
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Member
Registered: 01/31/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Russia
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Hi, I'm a new Caesar user I've decided to solve very simple example (to check my usage of caesar) pipe 1000 mm material (8) stainless steel ambient temperature 20 C working tempereture 120 C Geometry of section should effect model 2 nodes one clamped ------------------------------------------------------------------ Result dx = 1.5772 mm
OK so dx=L+L*alpha*(T-ambientT) what is is the alpha for this Temperature( alpha depends on temperature) I opened material database Editor and found for temperature 93.3333 alpha 15.3E-6 for temperature 148.8889 alpha 15.84E-6 and what alpha was used for 120???? it must be 15.772 but from what??????? how to get it?
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#15771 - 02/05/08 11:02 AM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: andru]
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Member
Registered: 12/13/99
Posts: 6226
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
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Go to the "Special Execution Options" dialog, and check the checkbox to "Show Alphas During Error Checking". CAESAR II will show you exactly what alpha is being used.
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Regards, Richard Ay - Consultant
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#15773 - 02/05/08 12:06 PM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: Richard Ay]
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Member
Registered: 01/31/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Russia
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please can you say how to make it constant I mean alpha I need it for solving testing examples
I've done what you have written before and got exactly 15.77 thanks now how to make it const thanks
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#15774 - 02/05/08 12:09 PM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: andru]
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Member
Registered: 12/13/99
Posts: 6226
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
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"Alpha" won't change - unless you change the temperature, ambient, the pipe material, or the piping Code.
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Regards, Richard Ay - Consultant
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#15775 - 02/05/08 02:39 PM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: Richard Ay]
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Member
Registered: 01/31/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Russia
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I see temperature, ambient and pipe material...there are no questions! but piping code? sorry how? or can I create "my" material with const "alpha"? I tried in material maneger(in column temperature wrote different numbers,in column alpha not diff) but failed. Could You say, or hang here printscreen version of what should be writen in maneger ..Please
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#15778 - 02/05/08 03:13 PM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: andru]
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Member
Registered: 12/13/99
Posts: 6226
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
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The Piping Code is set/changed on the "Allowable Stress" dialog. Check the "allowable stress checkbox" and this dialog will display on the right side of the spreadsheet.
For a given temperature, Code, and material, "alpha" will be constant. Maybe I don't understand your problem - what are you trying to do?
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Regards, Richard Ay - Consultant
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#15779 - 02/05/08 03:48 PM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: Richard Ay]
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Member
Registered: 01/31/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Russia
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I'm trying to solve task from textbook about piping and there are tasks with exactly "alpha", material propeties and Temperature &etc So I whant for example to set "alpha"=77.77e-006 (just example) on Temperature 120 ambient 20
OR another word I whant a material with const "alpha" in holl range of temperature
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#15780 - 02/05/08 03:52 PM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: andru]
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Member
Registered: 12/13/99
Posts: 6226
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
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Then just enter the "alpha value" in units of "length/length" in the temperature field. (You muliply by delta_T.) You'll have your "specified alpha" this way.
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Regards, Richard Ay - Consultant
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#15781 - 02/05/08 04:09 PM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: Richard Ay]
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Member
Registered: 01/31/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Russia
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Sorry there are 9 lines in the temperature field
first one should be me working temperature? yes? and second "alpha value" in units of "length/length" && yes? am I right? I read manuals..but in my opinion there not enough material about typing alpha in this field (but there are some words)
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#15782 - 02/05/08 04:13 PM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: andru]
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Member
Registered: 12/13/99
Posts: 6226
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
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The 9 temperature vectors correspond to a possible 9 operating temperatures your system may have. Typically though, you only have 1, so you leave the others blank.
Push [F1] for help here. In these fields you can enter either the temperature or the alpha.
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Regards, Richard Ay - Consultant
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#15783 - 02/05/08 05:13 PM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: Richard Ay]
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Member
Registered: 01/31/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Russia
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I know that I could enter one of two types of variables... but if dT=T-ambientT = 100 and Alpha=77.77e-006 what data should be entered in Only one field (as I understood from your last message I can solve all by using one field only)
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#15784 - 02/05/08 05:42 PM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: andru]
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Member
Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 285
Loc: Manila, Philippines
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maybe you could make your own material data and set what you want to have or what you want to use. I never try using this but this might help you.
Regards!
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BOM
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#15785 - 02/05/08 06:39 PM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: bom]
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Member
Registered: 01/31/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Russia
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tried to make own material with constant "alpha" did not help... So I'm interested in how to do it with "one field"
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#15786 - 02/05/08 09:22 PM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: andru]
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Member
Registered: 12/13/99
Posts: 6226
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
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if dT=T-ambientT = 100 and Alpha=77.77e-006 what data should be entered You would enter 100*77.77e-6 which equals 77.76e-4 which is .007776.
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Regards, Richard Ay - Consultant
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#15852 - 02/08/08 06:24 PM
Re: Ambient Temperature
[Re: andru]
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Member
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 5
Loc: America
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I don't remember if in the version 4.5 you can do the following, but I am sure you can do this in the version 5:
In the tools menu, choose material database and create a new material. So, you could fill this material with the constant alpha you want. But be very careful!: This only would be useful in the case of your "Textbook task" because Alpha is a property which depends on the Temperature. You always have to follow the pertinent code which applies for the case you are analysing (i.e. B31.3) and in the code you will find the material properties of each case.
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