Basis for Thermal Expnasion calculation

Posted by: Jop

Basis for Thermal Expnasion calculation - 03/04/12 03:58 PM

The following is from the Linked in “Piping Design” Group discussion about PDS & PDMS.
“All these programs work out the expansion stress in pipe for given piping material, design pressure and design temperature and given principal overall dimensions. They are helpful in checking viability of a preliminary piping layout. Computation of expansion data, modulus of elasticity and allowable stresses are automatic.”

This is not the only place this show s up, it just happens to be the current reminder of something that has always annoyed me. It annoys me because it is more costly to a project.

Background:
We as pipers try to be very precise about the work we do. We base our work on carefully developed P&ID’s, Specifications, Codes and use certified Outlines from vendors. We even have rigid fabrication tolerance (PFI ES3) for our pipe assemblies.

Here are my questions:
Why is “Design Temperature” used for the expansion calculation instead of the actual maximum Operating Temperature?
Why do we base our Thermal Expansion Stress Analysis on such a fictitious premise?

If your answer is "Because the 'Code' says so" then define WHY the Code says so.
Posted by: Dave Diehl

Re: Basis for Thermal Expnasion calculation - 03/05/12 03:21 AM

B31.3 defines design pressure and design temperature to establish wall thickness. That's it.
Stress and load calculations in B31.3 do not mention "design" values.
So use actual, expected temperatures and pressures if you wish. BUT I am concerned that someone, in the future, will read those design values, assuming that the system can be run at those conditions without further evaluation, and that may prove to be trouble.
Note that CAESAR II does not explicitly request design pressure and design temperature.
Posted by: Shahid Rafiq

Re: Basis for Thermal Expnasion calculation - 03/05/12 10:49 PM

Sometimes there are offsets (due to a number of reasons) in the system due to which line pressure or temperature shoots up. If you mean this as "actual maximum operating temperature", then in my opinion, YES we should take only that into consideration and not some fictitious value.