#70481 - 11/26/17 05:43 AM
Two different piping codes in one system with different matr
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Member
Registered: 07/25/15
Posts: 8
Loc: Doha, Qatar
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@ Mr Richard, please there was an argument between me and one of our client consultant regarding using two different piping codes (ISO 14692 and B31.3) in one system that has two different material properties (FRP Pipe and Carbon steel Pipe). At the meeting, the consultant asked why using B31.3 for the model and i replied by telling him that the system is a hybrid system since it has both carbon steel and FRP properties therefore its advisable to use B31.3 since it can handle both materials together, But the consultant disagreed with me and said its possible to run the stress analysis with two different piping codes for the system that have two different materials. please can you confirm if the consultant is right and also how do can combine such and produce a reasonable stress analysis result. finally, if anyone has done such combinations, please kindly lecture me in details.
Many Thanks in anticipation. Piper charles
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#70485 - 11/26/17 11:16 PM
Re: Two different piping codes in one system with different matr
[Re: Piper_Charles]
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Member
Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 276
Loc: India
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Charles,
You can use multiple codes for the same stress model in CII.
Primarily, the reference code for the piping material spec (Pipe Class) should be your code for pipe stress analysis.
You can definitely define any number of codes in a single CII model.
Just select code when you define a material.
_________________________
Keep Smiling
SJ
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#70487 - 11/27/17 12:07 AM
Re: Two different piping codes in one system with different matr
[Re: SJ]
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Member
Registered: 07/25/15
Posts: 8
Loc: Doha, Qatar
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Many thanks to you @ SJ for your quick respond. I quite agreed that material spec determine the piping code,but how about the loads combinations and please can you send to me a copy of CII file with multiple piping codes and materials that you have done for my further understanding if you wouldn't mind. Email: oguamanam@outlook.com
Once more, many thanks in advance. charles
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#70489 - 11/27/17 12:43 AM
Re: Two different piping codes in one system with different matr
[Re: Piper_Charles]
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Member
Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 276
Loc: India
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You're welcome,mate!
I sometimes deal with a mix of B31.3 and European code.
I can't send you any file for privacy reasons.
However, if you can decide load cases based on following:
-If major of your piping is of code A and only equipment (which is definitely out of pipe stress domain) is of code B material, then make load cases as per Code A because we are not responsible for equipment design. -If there is substantial piping governed by Codes A & B, then make load cases to suit the requirement for both the codes. It may happen that the piping subjected to Code A may fail when in load cases for Code B. For such cases, you've to investigate and decide.
Most importantly : Caesar recommended cases are based on the governing code of your last element of input file.
Hope it helps.
_________________________
Keep Smiling
SJ
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#70494 - 11/27/17 09:08 AM
Re: Two different piping codes in one system with different matr
[Re: Piper_Charles]
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Member
Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1025
Loc: Louisiana, US
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As SJ mentions, use all the load case combinations for all codes in consideration. Use the filter ability in the output editor to cull nodes for individual chapters of your final report.
I put in a request a few months back to change it to where filters can be applied to individual reports within a master report, which was received well, but is not yet a feature that yet exists.
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#70508 - 11/28/17 02:21 AM
Re: Two different piping codes in one system with different matr
[Re: Michael_Fletcher]
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Member
Registered: 07/25/15
Posts: 8
Loc: Doha, Qatar
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Many thanks to you @ Michael_Fletcher. I also wondered how the generating report will look like, but with your detail explanation it seem to be a hard task to filter the nodes numbers manually. for the above case, i have Carbon Steel, HDPE and FRP Materials and two piping codes of ISO-14692 & B31.3, but my scope is FRP. While trying to adhere to consultant protocol, i discovered that most of the failure are coming from carbon steel. Below are the list of loads combination for the System: CASE 1 (HYD) WW+HP CASE 2 (OPE) W+T1+P1 CASE 3 (Alt-SUS) W+P1 CASE 4 (OPE) W+T2+P1 CASE 5 (Alt-SUS) W+P1 CASE 6 (OPE) W+T3+P1 CASE 7 (Alt-SUS) W+P1 CASE 8 (OPE) W+T4+P1 CASE 9 (Alt-SUS) W+P1 CASE 10 (OPE) W+T5+P1 CASE 11 (Alt-SUS) W+P1 CASE 12 (SUS) W+P1 CASE 13 (EXP) L13=L2-L12 CASE 14 (EXP) L14=L4-L12 CASE 15 (EXP) L15=L2-L4 CASE 16 (EXP) L16=L6-L12 CASE 17 (EXP) L17=L2-L6 CASE 18 (EXP) L18=L4-L6 CASE 19 (EXP) L19=L8-L12 CASE 20 (EXP) L20=L2-L8 CASE 21 (EXP) L21=L4-L8 CASE 22 (EXP) L22=L6-L8 CASE 23 (EXP) L23=L10-L12 CASE 24 (EXP) L24=L2-L10 CASE 25 (EXP) L25=L4-L10 CASE 26 (EXP) L26=L6-L10 CASE 27 (EXP) L27=L8-L10 question now is that, how do i generate report just for FRP/ISO-14692 only.
Attachments
loads.pdf (495 downloads)
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#70510 - 11/28/17 08:41 AM
Re: Two different piping codes in one system with different matr
[Re: Piper_Charles]
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Member
Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1025
Loc: Louisiana, US
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Generally, you want to organize your CAESAR node setup to assist you in this process. E.G. You'd use nodes 10-5000 for carbon steel, 5010-7000 for HDPE, and 7010-10000 for FRP.
(I will also note that I'm running an older version of CAESAR that doesn't feature Alt-SUS in this manner, so I'm behind the times on those particular load cases, and cannot comment on them.)
In the output editor in the top menu you should be able to find Filter. (I currently am waiting for IT to settle my license issue with CAESAR, otherwise I would look for an exact pathway.) Within the filter menu, you specify which nodes you wish to look at, across as many reports as you'd like.
Once you set the filter, generate the report you need with the load cases you input for your piping code in question.
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#70711 - 01/05/18 02:37 AM
Re: Two different piping codes in one system with different matr
[Re: Piper_Charles]
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Member
Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 401
Loc: The Netherlands
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Be careful here as there are some known issues with combining steel piping codes with the FRP piping codes (especially ISO14692). Carefully check your displacement plots and your support loads. You may also have to make a manual adaptation to your results because of the OCC load case factor for GRP pipe.
Edited by corne (01/05/18 02:39 AM)
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#72323 - 10/24/18 07:08 AM
Re: Two different piping codes in one system with different matr
[Re: Piper_Charles]
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Member
Registered: 07/25/15
Posts: 8
Loc: Doha, Qatar
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Personal ISOGEN : VERSION 8.1.0 (Full)
*** IDFGEN VERSION 9.1.0 (Build 12) *** Reading File: ISOGEN.PCF
Processing PIPELINE-REFERENCE: SUPPLY SYSTEM_2 ALL COMPONENTS CONNECTED. ISOGEN VERSION 11.1.0 (Build 30) **** ISODAT **** START OF DRAWING SUPPLY SYSTEM_2
ERROR DETECTED IN PIPE /SUPPLY SYSTEM_2 ******************************************************************************** WARNING: Message Identifier: ISOGEN:1183 Message Text: NO MATCHING NOMINAL SIZE FOUND FOR 610 SIZE UPDATED USING CONVERSION FACTOR ******************************************************************************** WARNING: Message Identifier: ISOGEN:1183 Message Text: NO MATCHING NOMINAL SIZE FOUND FOR 2032 SIZE UPDATED USING CONVERSION FACTOR ******************************************************************************** WARNING: Message Identifier: ISOGEN:1183 Message Text: NO MATCHING NOMINAL SIZE FOUND FOR 102 SIZE UPDATED USING CONVERSION FACTOR ******************************************************************************** WARNING: Message Identifier: ISOGEN:1183 Message Text: NO MATCHING NOMINAL SIZE FOUND FOR 406 SIZE UPDATED USING CONVERSION FACTOR ******************************************************************************** WARNING: Message Identifier: ISOGEN:1183 Message Text: NO MATCHING NOMINAL SIZE FOUND FOR 51 SIZE UPDATED USING CONVERSION FACTOR ******************************************************************************** WARNING: Message Identifier: ISOGEN:1183 Message Text: NO MATCHING NOMINAL SIZE FOUND FOR 457 SIZE UPDATED USING CONVERSION FACTOR ******************************************************************************** TRYING TO SPLIT LINE SUPPLY SYSTEM_2 INTO 4 DRAWINGS WARNING: Message Identifier: ISOGEN:1202 Message Text: COMPLEX PIPELINE - AUTO-SPLITTING MAY HAVE PRODUCED DRAWINGS OF VARYING CONTENT
please, is there any possible solution to above problem.
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#72324 - 10/24/18 09:39 AM
Re: Two different piping codes in one system with different matr
[Re: Piper_Charles]
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Member
Registered: 01/29/10
Posts: 1025
Loc: Louisiana, US
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Thoughts:
1. If you're not already using line numbers, use line numbers to split up the model prior to ISOGEN. Note that you'll need to mark up the drawings to indicate continuations.
2. If that doesn't work, physically split the file into the different codes and run ISOGEN for each file. Again, you'll need to mark up the drawings to indicate continuation.
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