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#23272 - 12/17/08 04:34 AM incorporating force & moments on other file
rahul SRK Offline
Member

Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 30
Loc: Kolkata,India
Hi everybody!
Please let me know that incorporating forces & moments from some other file made in CAESARII 5.1 to other one, which report should be taken between restraints,local element forces & global element forces.

I would like to transfer effects of forces & moments to some other connected header pipe made separately.

Must be I am confuse for the proper selection of report.I know that these were given for some specific purpose but don't know what..

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#23278 - 12/17/08 07:52 AM Re: incorporating force & moments on other file [Re: rahul SRK]
Richard Ay Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/99
Posts: 6226
Loc: Houston, Texas, USA
This idea is not a godd one. You're missing the interaction of the two systems on each other.

When reviewing the element force reports, you're looking at loads ON the element, just imagine a free body diagram. Similarly when you're looking at restraint loads, you're looking at the loads acting ON the restraint.
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Richard Ay - Consultant

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#23334 - 12/20/08 01:25 PM Re: incorporating force & moments on other file [Re: Richard Ay]
paldex Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/08
Posts: 101
Loc: Qatar
Dear Mr.Richard Ay,

I dont understand what Mr. Rahul SRK is trying to express and also your reply to his query. But what my understanding in his query is, for example, Consider a 12" header line which is routed for many meters and is been analysed separately without analysing the branch connections, if we want to analyse the branch line separately which is connected from the main header (12") to the an equipment. In order to define the boundry conditon of the branch line, the following are some of the options that our contractor proposes, i want the members to confirm it,

1. To define the boundry condition of branch line, do we have to enter only the values of displacements and forces of the main header node which connects the branch line to the branch initial node.

2. Or is it better to analyze the branch line by considering the main header line for an analysis till the anchor points of main header.

Please clarify.

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#23335 - 12/20/08 02:35 PM Re: incorporating force & moments on other file [Re: paldex]
corne Offline
Member

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 401
Loc: The Netherlands
If you check the design codes it says something about unbalanced systems. If you have such a system it is possible to analyse it in two seperate sessions where the displacements of the stiffer pipe are being transferred to the more elastic pipe.
If you have two pipes with more or less the same stiffness it's best to analyze this in one session. Or split it up into seperate files splitting the network on the anchor points. In this last option, be careful when designing the anchors cause you have to combine the anchor forces from both files.

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#23340 - 12/20/08 07:11 PM Re: incorporating force & moments on other file [Re: paldex]
Sam Manik Offline
Member

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 231
Loc: Jakarta, Indonesia
Dear Paldex,

The best way to break part of piping system opposed to whole system is at anchor (real anchor support) or some equipment connection because two system separated by anchor will not interact each other.

If we give boundary condition D or F at non anchor location when separate them there , we still miss the stiffness of non-modeled part against modeled part.

There is a criteria branch also needs to be included with the header if moment inertia ratio Ih/Ib < ..xx (check company criteria). You can read it in Sam Kannapan book in Chapter X in section Useful Hints in Piping Design. But it is said for nuclear piping.
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Many thanks & regards,
Sam Manik

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